VonoreTn

Chevy claims that the Volt will get 50 mpg after the first 40 miles, but I am very skeptical of that conclusion. It is heavier than a Prius and it has the additional inefficiency of generating electricity for charging batteries that in turn drive motors. Each operation is at best a 70% efficient energy conversion, thus combined it is only a 49% efficient process after the 30% efficiency of the ICE, for a total of 15% overall efficiency. A direct drive by an ICE like the Prius and Fusion Hybrid have, gives you the 30% ICE efficiency plus 85% mechanical drivetrain efficiency for an overall of 25% versus the Volt 15%. After the first 40 miles on the Volt I think not only will the Prius beat the Volt, so will the Fusion Hybrid with it's approximate 40 mpg.

But there is no question that the first 40 miles on the battery is a big plus since most Americans make lots of short runs in a day. Assuming that their electrical energy cost is currently reasonable. I'm just not sure it's worth the extra even $2-$3 grand for someone who spends a lot of time highway driving. I think GM engineers are well aware of this situation which one reason it's release keeps getting delayed.

And I do resent the fact that my tax dollars will be subsidizing the Volt's competitive position against the FFH, since I am a retired Ford employee. That's just not fair. They should subsidize all hybrids or no hybrids, not just the Government Motors hybrid.

Haven't been following very closely, but I saw that GM recently confirmed a $41k sticker price for the Volt. I'm assuming that's a base price, and I have no idea what sort of options come standard.

 

Obviously, the price seems way too high for a compact car, even after a $7,500 tax credit (thanks for your money, taxpayers).

 

But beyond the price, the whole technology just seems dumb. The car lugs around an ICE, but it only serves as a generator to recharge the battery? The way I see it, if you need an ICE to drive at higher (highway) speeds and extend driving distance, it would be more efficient to just use hybrid technology, which actually incorporates the ICE into the drivetrain. And you've gotta think hybrid technology is going to get even better once they improve the batteries.

 

Of course, I'm not an engineer, not even a government engineer, so I could be totally wrong, but I'm really glad I went with the Fusion. I got a fully loaded mid-size sedan which gets over 40mpg for right around $30k. I just don't see how the Volt can compete.

I had a ‘Twilight Zone’ incident while driving my FFH yesterday. I suddenly heard a woman’s voice though I was alone in the car, the radio was off, the Sirius subscription had expired months ago and I don‘t have On Star. I understood only part of what she said. I comprehended the words “report and push OK”. I fully expected to see Rod Serling appear in the rear view mirror but he wasn’t there. Has anyone had a similar experience while driving a FFH?

I'm thinking that when Ford did the contract with Sync, they had an On Star capability in mind, for future applications.

Mine jumped up from the 37 mpg range to the lower 40's after I took it in to the dealer for a free "brake feel" adjustment that I got a notice about in the mail. Not sure what they did. Also it turned warmer here in Tennessee about the same time, that might have been the reason.

Ford creating American jobs! Excellent.

Well its been about 90 in Northern VA the last few days and I've been using the AC (keeping it on 68) and my MPG has dropped from 41-44 to about 30-31. This is worst then when it was winter. I guess the only time to get optimal mileage is to live where its fall all year long.

I worked in the Air Conditioning engineering at Ford for several years (years ago) and we ran a lot of windtunnel tests to measure speed of cool down with a 110F ambient and 130F interior starting point. Opening the windows first is a good idea, as the interior can get up to as high as 140F in southern states with the windows closed in a parking lot. Leaving a small gap at the top of the windows while parked can knock 20F off that peak.

Whether you start on fresh air and switch to recirculation mode makes very little difference in cool down rate, but recirculation mode is always much more efficient than fresh air mode. In fresh air mode you can spend as much as half of your AC cooling energy on extracting moisture out of the incoming air, and dumping it out a drain below the evaporator onto the road. But in recirculation mode, once you have dehumidified the air, you save that energy and just cool the same dehumidified air over and over. So be sure to push that little button on the bottom right with the recirculation symbol. If you need to freshen the air for whatever reason, just take it out of recirc for a minute or two, or open a window or the sun roof briefly.

Also if it's 90F outside, you don't need to put it on 68 to get to a comfortable 72, put it on 72. A setting of 68 is just begging the system to run at max capacity and energy level constantly.

My personal FFH experience with running the AC has been that it has been totally comfortable and it hardly has any impact on my mileage 40-42 mpg, whereas I took a big hit during cold temperatures this last winter 34-38 mpg. Thus I am impressed with the FFH air conditioning engineering, I think Ford did an outstanding job on designing it.

Best bet is to do nothing. I jumped the gun, took the best deal I could get, which was about $137 for one year. Then a week later someone called me with a much better deal, like about $87 for a year. I think you automatically get thrown into a third party system of people working on hard-to-renew-cases out of their home (I heard a baby in the background). A pleasant lady who spoke perfect English offered this much better deal, but it was too late to change.

Think about it, it costs them no more to give you Sirus at half cost or full cost. Yes they need high fees to stay in business, but once in business, users who insist on half price cost them no more.

There are only a few stations I really like, mainly the Patriot talk radio station, and Fox News. Which are especially nice to have while traveling in remote sections of the country.

 

Just had to share this with someone...we're really excited to save some money without negotiating a price.

 

 

T.M.I.

Truly a 'standard of living" thing. But for people in the BRRR areas, these types of cars are still the most efficient in improving your standard of living. They'll cool down or warm up and then shut of the ICE and use it only intermittently if your delayed. Don't use these remotes when the temperature is mild or to "warm up" the engine, just really uncomfortable temperatures. Many years ago up north, I had an hour commute. In really cold temperatures, it meant 15 minutes of freezing or else wearing a heavy coat for the whole trip. I luckily had an unheated attached garage and forced air heat in the house. I put a round duct outlet into the garage and used a dryer hose and fitted sheet of galvanized metal in the drivers window to heat the car. You could remove/insert it with one hand and it worked perfectly. The FFH lets you do that much more simply with the remote.

That is truly clever, I respect you for your ingenuity. I lived in Michigan for 33 years and drove about 25 different vehicles to work in that time period, and the only time I didn't have heat in 3 minutes on the expressway or 5 in traffic, was if I had a bad thermostat. They were all Ford products. But I never started out cold in heavy traffic, maybe that is your experience which would take longer.

Giving up some mpg for some early heat sounds reasonable as you describe. You might also consider a block heater which are dealer installed on a regular basis in Canada, they preheat the engine coolant, with no detriment to mpg. You will have warm air coming out of the heater as soon as you back out of your garage.

Once installed, Just plug in a connector near the grill, and into the wall 110V once installed. Not only will you be warmer sooner, your catalytic converter will light off quicker, lowering your emission levels as well. You can run it on a timer if it only takes about an hour to heat the coolant, for instance.

I read somewhere that they are standard equipment on new Ford Fusions sold in AK, MN, ND, SD, MT, WI & WY.

We were struggling to hold 36 mpg before the adjustment, now we are getting 42 with no problem. Might have been the weather warm up too. I don't know.

Here is a hint. You are trying to achieve Miles per gallon. When the engine is running, and you aren't going any miles, the MPG is Zero, by definition, which subtracts from your average mpg, and wastes gasoline. An engine warms up best when it is under load, not at idle. It warms up much quicker under load than sitting at idle. I have always thought the "luxury" of a remote start is overkill on perceived improvement of standard of living, but then I coming at it from an engineer's perspective. Maybe you live near the north pole and it makes sense to you.

This is not a FFH issue, nor a Ford issue, and I don't like the fact that a connection is even suggested to those who won't read the article in full. Ford has enough legal issues to deal with regarding imaginary product shortfalls without suggesting a new one. I think this topic should be removed from the entire Ford forum for that reason.

Doesn't one of the 10 Commandments deal with not bearing false witness?

I would definitely drive it and make sure that everything works, including installing your phone on sync and making sure it works (needs to be bluetooth compatible cell phone). I'm not sure that their "certified" is any better than the factory warranty that will come with it, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. At $25K I think that is reasonable. 10K miles is not that hard on a FFH, it's just at it's first oil change, the engine hasn't been run/loaded near as much as in a normal vehicle.

Also see if you can get the deal I got on a used Mustang at a Dodge dealer once, three days to return it warranty, no questions asked. After buying it, I took the car to a local Ford Dealer, he ran computer checks on it and found that the title had been branded. That means it had been either stolen, major rework, or bad accident, and no Ford warranty would apply. I returned it the second day and got a full refund.

Once you get used to the FFH mileage, there is no going back to a 23 mpg vehicle. The Subaru is a great vehicle but how often do you need 4 wheel drive? I had it in an Explorer for 10 years and used it about twice, going out of my way to find a reason to use it. The Prius is a good car too, but I don't think it has the road comfort or the safety of a larger, heavier car. The Volkswagen Jetta Diesel is a good choice but it doesn't get quite the mileage of a FFH. (30 city, 42 highway).

I don't consider the FFH overpriced, because I know that the cost to build it is there, given the high content drivetrain and batteries, and that Ford is not making a huge profit on it like they do on a lot of their trucks. There is a lot of serious business speculation that Toyota loses money on the Prius, to get you into their dealership where they can sell you a Camry. Toyota would never acknowledge this if it were true, since they would risk charges of product dumping.

http://www.glgroup.com/News/Is-Toyotas-Prius-Being-Dumped-On-The-US-Market--23242.html

We had a truck go off the left side of the road taking the southern route around St. Louis a month ago in our FFH, and it kicked up stones, and one put a spider impact crack on the front left of the windshield. I wasn't drafting, although in the heavy traffic, I was too close to the truck, both of us being in the far left lane passing slower traffic.

We had the plastic infusion fix at a windshield repair shop in Knoxville when we got home, and it made it almost invisible except for 2 small dots that you would never notice. Our insurance paid for it 100%, because it is so much cheaper for them than replacing a windshield. Of course with our $500 deductible, we would have had to pay for the new windshield, so this fix was a free win-win.

This obviously has nothing to do with your huge Z crack. That sounds like a structural issue, or a plant mis-assembly, and unless there is some sign of a road impact incident, it should be fully covered by the Ford warranty.

Hello,

 

Mile tops. Sorry--it is not an electric vehicle. What you do get is style and performance with above average gas mileage.

 

Mileage truly varies based on climate and driving style. Hybrids dont like cold weather. My FFH is only 2 months new, but I am getting 35MPG in 30 to 40 degree weather, 10% ethanol gas. I expect to get approx 45MPG during the summer--75 to 85 degree weather. My predictions are based on owning and driving a Prius for two years.

 

I did not pay the "hybrid premium" for better gas mileage or because I am a tree hugger. One thing the media always neglets when discussing how much hybrids cost---I bought one mainly because I am a tech junkie , and because it lessens our dependence on foriegn oil. Sorry--off on a tangent there:)

 

Good luck in your decision. Hope this helps.

Excellent response. It's not an electric vehicle, and it took me awhile to get over with my fascination with trying to stay in electric mode, since it barely makes any difference if your in and out at 45 mph on rolling hills, or cruising at 48 with the ICE on continuously. It's about mileage, not being in electric mode.

My FFH now has 12K miles on it, and I experienced the cold weather blues, and it only got Camry hybrid mpg's through the winter (35 ish). But now that it is warm again, I am in the low 40 mpgs. If you want 45 mpg you might be disappointed, I think 42 might be the max without hypermiling. We averaged 40 on a 1000 mile trip to Texas last Sept. with the AC running continuously, on fairly flat terrain. I'm not a tree hugger either, but I appreciate that my fuel bill has been cut in half, and if everyone's new car was a FFH or Prius, we would really set the standard of living back in Saudi Arabia, as our gas prices go down and our standard of living goes up. (Supply and demand)

Do you mean the Owner's Manual that came in the Glove box?

Good news! My FFH mileage seemed to drop over the winter, but it just popped back on the last tank of gas. I speculate that the increase is related to 3 things, and maybe a combination of all 3.

1. The weather is warmer, in the 50's yesterday.

2. My last tank of gas was from a different station than I have used before, and it is 100% gas, no ethanol.

3. I took my Fusion in for the brake related free computer recalibration last week, and based on FFH gauge readings, there has been an improvement since then.

I averaged 43 yesterday on an 80 mile trip into and back from Knoxville. My chart below is from fuel tank fillup data, not Fusion displays. I also add 2% for odometer error. Since I have more air in my tires (36 psi cold) than the computer thinks (32 psi cold), I actually go more distance than my odometer says, per tire revolution. I measured this on a road trip over a straight 50 mile stretch, and it was consistent for 10, 25, and 50 miles.

Are you talking about the engine air filter? The manual states it never needs changing under normal use.

 

Dan

I assume that the reason it is so expensive is that it is kind of built in, and once you do get at it, it can be cleaned, like a K&N filter. There was another thread on this subject in this area, I think someone posted who was familiar with how to get at it, I think through the front left wheel well cover.

Hi there .. Been reading some of the recent posts concerning problems with HEV electronics ... and wondering if I should go with the extended Ford warranty for peace of mind. Any advice from HEV owners.

 

I have an HEV on order and expect it to arrive in the next couple of weeks. Read all the great reviews including Consumer Report's excellent report on frequency of repair, and had originally ruled out buying any extended warranty coverage. But not so sure anymore.

 

In Canada, the HEV components carry an 8 year 160,000 km warranty, but I wonder if the electronic dash components on the Fusion would be covered for 8 years. Dealer is offering me ESP Premium care for 5 years 100,000 kms for $1400.

 

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated

Our dealer wanted $1800 for the same warranty, so you could do worse. That warranty is really only from 36k miles to 100k, since your new car warranty is essentially the same thing and it goes 3 years or 36k miles, whichever comes first. I think you can get as low as $1100 if you shop, it's offered through normal insurance companies, who all just go by the risk tables. I think the cost might be different if you have sync/GPS, since I know a Toyota dealer who wanted $6K to replace a friends 04, 4runner intermittent functioning GPS/climate control screen, at 74K miles. (He has since bought a Ford).

But I would definitely confirm with your dealer that whatever outside package you get it will be good at your dealer. It won't cover brake pads or rotors, engine or transmission leaks, and normal wear and tear stuff, (seat wear, paint, etc), just major drive line stuff like a failed engine, transmission, and I think all the electronics. The 8 year 100K mile hybrid warranty covers only hybrid stuff, I don't think it covers the electronic display or sync in general. Please correct me if I'm wrong anybody.

We have driven the FFH 5800 miles in the past 10 months - virtually all city. Fuel economy has dropped to 35.7 MPG with the cold weather we had this year in Georgia. I just got my taxes back and decided to look at what I have saved with the Hybrid versus the 2007 Edge I traded in on it.

 

$3,400 Federal tax credit

$175 from the new car sales tax deduction

$490 in fuel savings

 

Total $4,065.

 

I realize that the Tax credit only counts if I would have bought another vehicle that did not have the credit, but i would have bought something (considered the Flex.) All considered, I think I have made the correct choice and might actually keep this one for a while since we enjoy it so much. (we tend to trade a lot - 116 new vehicles since 1966.)

I'm glad to see I'm not the only FFH owner whose mpg dropped to 35 this winter. 116 new vehicles? That must be some kind of record, over 2 new vehicles per year! And you must have a very good income!

I was thinking these problems had nothing to do with my FFH, until my Wife told me today that as she pulled out of the garage, all the mpg data re-zeroed. That's the first time that has happened in the 6 months we have owned the vehicle, with ~11,000 miles on it.

I thought the same about FFH not accommodating a garage door opener somewhere. I found a use for that little drawer to the left of the steering wheel on the dash. With a 95 cent momentary push button from Radio Shack and about five minutes work, I put the garage door opener in the drawer and the push button on the face of the drawer. It’s easy to reach, even in the dark I can find it and works great. If you are afraid it will spoil the resale value, just buy another drawer insert from Ford and exchange it for the modified one before you sell the car.

Ingenious! Good job. :beerchug:

I'm eager to see pics. I bet that looks good with a black FFH. All that service including house call, removing and replacing the tires, balance, etc was probably worth several hundred alone. Did he have to strip the existing paint first? I assume the wheels as they come from Ford are painted cast aluminum. That was a great idea, something that makes the car unique but won't subtract from the resale value.

I agree with all that the lack of a built in garage door opener is a bummer. A step down from my 2000 Ford Explorer, Eddie Baurer version that I traded in as a clunker, simply due to mileage (189K), not any other product shortfall. It had 3 garage door buttons in the sun visor. Anyway, I bought the one below for my motor scooter, and it comes in real handy, for all 3 garage doors. It is small enough to hang on a key chain. I have had it 3 years and the original button battery is still good, and it has a better range than my larger opener remotes.

Genie model GMI-3BL.

http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=5469763

$22.75 plus $5.95 shipping, USA

Got the car back this afternoon. They had to replace the dc to dc converter. Said the part alone was $1,400. I will be keeping an eye on it.

The extended long term warranty just started sounding more attractive.