Oman

We have covered this pretty well on the forum before. The above replies are wrong because they omit too much detail. The manual states that if you want to store the car for longer than 30 days at a time you should disconnect the 12v battery and make sure the HV battery has at least a 1/2 level charge. The HV battery has a relay that completely disconnects the HV unless there is 12v power. Taking the 12v battery offline takes both offline. Disconnecting the battery is smart for long term storage no matter what car you have (hybrid or otherwise). You can disconnect the 12v lead from the car and even keep a trickle charger connected to the battery post if the weather gets cold. There have been a number of cases of non-hybrid cars catching fire in unattended storage because of electrical problems. Disconnecting the battery prevents these issues entirely. Jon

Sorry I didn't see your post earlier. I bet you didn't leave your car for just 30 days... I bet it was 50 days. There is a pretty well known 50 day key off time limit in the security systems of most 2010 and newer Fords. That's one of the reasons they recommend starting it every 30 days. It's not just the FFH that has this. I can't believe the dealer did not have you disconnect the battery first. I'm not sure why they implemented this "feature" since disconnecting the battery for a few minutes and reconnecting it bypasses the lockout. Jon

There are a number of diagnostics that can cause a shutdown. Most of these will only occur while driving and nearly all of them will reset once the car is shut off. The code will remain in memory but the car will run until the diagnostic again fails, causing a shutdown again. Ask for a complete dump of the codes, often the dealer will say "reprogram" and what they really mean is clear the codes. This never fixes anything - it just gets you out the door.

As I said in my first post, the data was normalized for accessory use and highly unusual environmental effects. This was same route same time data. The only variable was outside temperature. And yes, climate control, both heat and A/C are the single biggest controllable hits on fuel economy outside of driving style.

Interesting, your averages look very different than mine. I rarely drive the car outside my commute (I have a family and a minivan) so the route it pretty well controlled. I've never seen mileage as low as yours especially an average that low. The lowest single trip I get is 33.4 and that is with the heat/defrost and snow. I also don't get as high as you, my best average is 41.3. My numbers were calculated down to the 34 mile trip, that way I could account for temperature. I've stopped keeping detailed records. My curiosity has long been satisfied. I just wanted to see what info I could squeeze out if I tried hard enough.

I decided to whip out the spreadsheet and do some analysis on temperature and mileage for my FFH. For reference my commute is by time about 1/2 55Mph county road and 1/2 70mph highway, about 1/3 county road and 2/3 highway by mileage. In Minnesota. I averaged daytime 9am and 5pm temps from my weather station into each day. I then removed days it snowed + 2 days and days it rained trying to eliminate outside drag factors. I wanted to see the effect of outside temperature on mileage. In the Winter I keep the cabin heat off or low since I wear a coat appropriate for the weather - I don't go out in the cold without protection. In the Summer I don't use the A/C too much as I love the great fresh air breeze you get by cracking the sun roof and a rear window. I keep seeing a linear formula for calculating the mileage hit but it never jibed with my experience. If I normalize for the change in fuel formulation we get between Summer and Winter blends here in Minnesota I get the following: 90% of the mileage decrease I see between 0 degrees f and 90 degrees f (the largest range of data for me) happens between 60 degrees and 30 degrees f. There is very little difference between 0 and 30, and then again from 60 to 90 degrees f. I don't have enough data over 90 or under zero as this Winter has been extremely warm. To me this is a huge swing in a pretty short temperature range making the function very non-linear. Does anyone else see this sort of thing? Jon

Sorry again, but cranking amps and total battery amp hours are *not* the same, and CCA or cold cranking amps are again different. I think you are mixing up cranking amps and total amp hour capacity. A battery designed for high current output will generally have a lower overall amp hour rating and a higher self-discharge rate than a lower current output design. Definition of CCA: The maximum number of amps the battery can discharge for 30 seconds at zero degrees. There are 3 limiting factors in this number, not one. The first is the ability for the conductive elements of the battery to pass current, the second is the ability of the chemical reaction to instantaneously move electrons, and the third is the ability of the chemical reaction to maintain the reaction over 30 seconds. Definition of CA: The maximum number of amps the battery can discharge for 30 seconds at 30 degrees. Not a good measurement for a starting battery. Definition of HCA: The maximum number of amps the battery can discharge for 30 seconds at 80 degrees. Even worse measurement for a starting battery. Definition of AH: The total number of amps that a battery can deliver over a period of one hour. Not a good measurement for a starting battery because what matters most is how hard can it drive the starter motor for a very short time, but it is the only measurement of actual power in a battery. Definition of RC (Reserve Capacity): This is supposed to be the number of AH left after the 30 seconds of maximum CCA discharge, but this was so mis-used by battery marketers that it is completely useless. So AH is total power while the others are maximum power over a very short interval. Why wouldn't AH and CCH increase at the same rate for a given battery? This has mostly to do with the fact that the internal battery design changes to accommodate the higher currents draws. Thicker plates, more offgas allowance, etc. This results in less electrolyte and electrolyte to lead surface area for the given case size. Less electrolyte and surface area means less total AH capacity in the battery. Battery manufacturers have been trying to break the CCA/CA myth for years. They were trying to stop competing on the CCA numbers alone because a higher CCA doesn't mean more power in the battery, just more current for a very short time, usually at the expense of actual power storage. Since the FFH does not have a high current draw requirement like a car with a starter motor does, if you want the most power go with the highest AH rating and lowest CA or CCA rating. "Period"? Jon

Umm, no, not so simple. CCA is "Cold Cranking Amps" and has absolutely positively nothing to do with the total power available in the battery. To get a higher CCA rating starting batteries often have less total amp hour capacity than batteries in the same size class with lower CCA capacities. You don't want a battery with higher CCA in the FFH, you want less since this car doesn't have a 12V starter at all, but you want the correct size class. I measured the parasitic load on my 2010 FFH. After calculating out the rated total AH on the factory battery and dividing by the load I measured I should be able to let the car sit about 10 weeks and still be able to start it without issue. Clearly people are having problems after fewer weeks than that, so I see 4 possible causes: 1) Defective batteries. 2) Problem with the factory charging system 3) Excessive factory equipment load 4) Extra parasitic load from customer equipment I found that I was using a USB charger that was drawing well over 200ma just being plugged in. Over a few weeks that could kill the battery. The accessory ports do not shut down with the key off and the battery saver doesn't turn them off either. Jon

I also wanted to mention - on the FFH the power ports are *not* protected with the battery saver. I found a phone charger that was drawing over 100ma with no pone connected. That will drain the battery after several days. And the only way to properly test the battery is to load test it. Testing the specific gravity will tell you the charge but not necessarily if there is plate damage. Jon

MG1 can turn both ways, and acts as both a motor and a generator. Its primary function is to control the ICE RPM relative to the drive wheels. It doesn't provide drive power as directly as MG2 does, but still can. When the ICE is turning at low RPMs compared to the drive wheels MG1 is consuming power to make that happen. It will consume from the HVB or from MG2. When the ICE is turning faster than the drive wheels (relatively, for simplicity) then MG1 is generating power and is usually consumed by MG2 but some may go to the HVB. The car is quite often generating power from one of the MGs just to put it into the other. It is all about managing the ICE in the most efficient manor possible. This is over simplified because there are other factors but gets the idea out there. Jon

There have been reports of the rear brakes hanging-up and causing excessive wear. This usually caused by lack of heavy occasional braking. Essentially the friction brakes are not used enough so they start to stick. Also, the emergency brakes freeze from not using them, not from using them. It is when you use it for the first time in 5 years that they will jam because they have not been exercised. So it is good to use them once in a while, especially when parking on an incline. If you have ever seen how fragile the parking pin is you would never go near a parked car on an inclined street. Now for the service. If it was just brake shoes they I would say you had a hang-up. Since the dealer appears to have fleeced you (based on the bill for supposedly regular maintenance) I would say they likely lied about everything. If your invoice shows either "Transmission Service" or "CVT Fluid change" you were absolutely ripped-off unless they had proof of a failure or damage. My dealer tried that on my wife and it set off one heck of a firestorm. I was very upset at Ford for not chastising the dealer more than they did, they simply said that they leave it up to the dealer to decide if there are "unusual" maintenance requirements based on observed wear and local conditions. When asked what wear they saw or what unusual conditions warranted $700 of out-of-spec service, the dealer only said that "we like to do this work to assure the customer is satisfied with the vehicle." I'm sure they do. I would love people to give me $100.00 bills for no reason too. If the service is not listed in the manual then make the dealer SHOW YOU THE PROBLEM. Don't buy the "the weather around here is worse than average" or "the roads around here are worse than average" or "the traffic around here is worse than average" B.S. Unless you have a reason to believe that you have unusual service requirements - follow the published schedule. Ford doesn't want your car to wear out fast, really, they don't. What they don't want more than anything else in the world is recalls and warranty repairs. The service schedule is actually pretty conservative already. Ford build good cars but their dealers appear to be taking them down. Jon

I'm pretty sure that Ford is one of the brands that has been affected by the shortage of Japanese made nav systems. I had read that there are tens of thousands of vehicles currently on production hold because of this. The local dealer has a 501 2012 package FFH. They have 502s on order but no fill date. Jon

I have been going to the same Ford dealer in Apple Valley, MN for years. Today I had the first major issue with them recommending what I think are ridiculous services on my '10 FFH. My car has 30K on it and my wife brought it in for its (every) 10K oil change and tire rotation. This would be the fourth time there for this very same service (I like to do the first change early and did so at 5K). This time the service manager told my wife that the car "needed" an engine coolant change, electronics coolant change, *and* a "transmission fluid change." At first the services were quoted at around $250.00 - but then they came back and said that the "special hybrid CVT transmission" required specialized parts and that it would be around $425 just for that part of the service. My wife called me at work and told me what extra services the car "needed" per the quick-lane at the dealer. I told her I wanted to talk to the service writer. The service writer told me that here in MN the cards are exposed to "extreme" conditions and that these services, although outside the normal Ford recommendations, were recommended for us here in MN. Those extra needs being engine coolant replacement, electronics coolant replacement, and eCVT fluid change every 30,000 miles. Add in the oil change and we are over $600.00. Needless to say that appears to be way way outside Fords guidelines and seems to be trying to take advantage of people to an extreme. In fact there is *no* scheduled maintenance for the eCVT lube listed in the manuals. I called my salesperson who then had the head of service call me back. He told me the exact same story, that all these services should be done every 30K if I wanted my car to last and that the hybrids can be more expensive to maintain. I'm sure Ford will be happy to hear what their dealers are doing to their brand. All the actual evidence points to hybrids being cheaper to maintain if in fact you don't get scammed by unscrupulous dealers. I only had them do the oil change and rotation and I won't be back there again. Ever.

There is a very wide angle lens on the camera. Normally you will see the plate (nice way to make sure no one stole it!) on the top and the bottom should be pretty much directly behind the car. Are you only seeing a narrow field of view directly towards the ground? Jon

I don't think your statement accurately reflects how the system works. The motor controller loss is a nearly linear percentage of the power entering or leaving the system, and actually has low overhead. Several hundred watts is pretty much nothing. Just taking your foot off the accelerator enables the "simulated engine braking" mode which only provides the slightest drag yet yields a charge on the HVB even after all the overhead. The question is when the system soaks and therefore becomes less efficient. You are much more likely to hit a huge loss from the soak rather than slightly extend the overhead. In each case there is a set amount of energy available from the momentum of the car. The most efficient way to use that energy is to leave it as momentum. If you have to convert it (4 times to use it again - momentum->electrical->chemical->electrical->momentum) there will be loss. Just sayin :>