What's your long term fuel economy

[Hybrid1]

Has anyone experienced this ... 2,000 total miles ... the car is at running temperature and while waiting at a stop light, there is a loud clunk that could be felt and heard. The ICE was not running at the time and the dash display changed on its own from the fourth level of information (maximum) to the level which contains the tachometer. When I started out (on a level surface) only the ICE was indicated. I thought that I had lost the electric motor. I have never achieved the expected average city mpg since and the dealer could only tell me that there were no faults found and everything is running as it should (I average better mileage on the freeway (38 mpg) than I do around town (32 mpg)). I can not start from a stop without the ICE coming on and unless I am coasting or going down hill, I can not maintain any kind of speed (under 47 mph) without the ICE running solo or in concert with the electric motor (with a full battery charge). Any suggestions? The software problem on the brakes (determining when to transition between regenerative and regular brakes) got me thinking that this could be a similar software problem (determining when to transition between the electric motor versus the ICE). I pride myself as someone who can maximize the mileage out of a car so I am constantly applying all of the tricks of efficient driving. I am convinced that this is something that is controlled by the car itself and not the driver.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Hybrid1

[seamusbleu]

I'm half-way through my first tank of gas and so far my average is about 31 ( reset it after filling it up on the way home from the dealer). I'm sure it will improve somewhat as the car breaks in. It will also improve when the weather warms up (it's been between 0-25 degrees-F here lately).

 

That all said, I'm still surprised at the mpg when cruising at a steady speed. It seems to be better at say 60 mph then at say 50. That seems to be about the only time I see mpg > 40 (other than when it's in EV mode, of course).

 

I'm enjoying the car, but I'm wondering if I'll ever see 40 mpg average tanks.

[lolder]

Probably not until summer in MN. A 60 degree F. temperature increase yields at least a 30% mpg improvement. Mpg. decreases 0.7 mpg for every mph speed increase so it's unlikely it's better at 60 than 50. Many things have large negative effects; head winds, lower temperatures, noisy road surface, wet roads, passenger heating and cooling, lower tire pressure, driving habits. You are starting on an interesting educational journey.

 

Lee

Edited February 15, 2010 by lolder

[lolder]

With about 8300 miles, I checked the odometer accuracy with about 40 psi tire pressure. It reads about 1.8% low in miles driven. Given that car computer calculated mpg is about 2% above pump mpg calculations, the car computer mpg. is maybe 0.2% high. That's about the size of the experimental error. Prius chat sites report 5-10% high mpg computers.

[Zack]

8000 km (5000 miles), 6.5l/100km or 35 MPG, not bad, nothing to write home about either. Cold outside (Toronto, Canada), snow everywhere.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Zack

[Howie411]

I filled up my tank 2 days ago and its been really cold lately in VA, and my average city driving is now 28.5 which is horrendous, I almost think that Ford needs to disclose that you can lose up to 12 mpg in cold weather.

[seamusbleu]

I just did refilled my first tank for the first time and averaged only 31 mpg, which is a little disappointing.

[sullied]

I filled up my tank 2 days ago and its been really cold lately in VA, and my average city driving is now 28.5 which is horrendous, I almost think that Ford needs to disclose that you can lose up to 12 mpg in cold weather.

I disagree. Every car loses MPGs in the cold. In addition to the colder air, winter grade gas is put into the pumps which has a lower energy and accounts for even more losses in MPG. Not much you or Ford can do about it. No reason for Ford to disclose this...it's a well known fact and it affects every single gas engine vehicle.

[dogo88]

I disagree. Every car loses MPGs in the cold. In addition to the colder air, winter grade gas is put into the pumps which has a lower energy and accounts for even more losses in MPG. Not much you or Ford can do about it. No reason for Ford to disclose this...it's a well known fact and it affects every single gas engine vehicle.

 

I have to agree here too. I've had my FFH since May 09 and during the cold days my mileage drops to mid to low 30's. In summer I get high 30's to low 40's except when it blistering hot and the air just runs. A lot has to do with warm up and driving distance. Short trips in the cold winter will always be low mileage.

 

Dan

[wstcoaster07]

Just to add my stats:

 

total car milage: ~5000

long term mpg: ~35.1 mpg (car reads 36 but I keep records at every fill up)

 

Type of driving:

-first 2k miles was primarily to and from work which was about a 5mi drive avg speed of 40mph with 4 stop signs along the route

-weather was TX winter so got in to the low 40s in the early hours and mid 70's later on

 

-2k mile trip (move) from TX to CA, avg speed 80-85 in TX (gotta love their higher speed limits) and then 70-75 the rest of the way (avg ~36-37mpg on that trip)

-Oh, i pumped my tires up to about 39-40psi before the trip to give me an extra mpg or two... noticed it was a little harsher of a drive over any road flaws but not much

 

-last 1k miles have been in CA with a 20 mi commute to work that is 50%@65mph and 50%@35mph with a couple stops for road changes and security gates (military)

-I minimize use of the AC and in fact haven't used it much at all since I have only owned the car since late September

 

My overall mpg is slightly lower than I had expected or hoped for when I bought the FFH but I do expect it to get closer to 38mpg now that my work commute isn't incredibly short (on my old commute I would be half way to work before the electric mode was ready)

 

Driving style: I would say I am concentrate on getting the most out of my efficiency without taking it overboard. I don't slam on the accelerator unless I am trying to match traffic joining a freeway, and I don't coast at 47mph on electric if the speed limit is 50mph.

 

 

I hope that is detailed enough haha. All in all though I LOVE this car. That move from TX to CA was what really showed me how comfortable and great this car is. I did the same drive with my 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee in December (unfortunately the military doesn't pay to ship your second car if you are lucky enough to own 2) and the drive was much more enjoyable in the FFH. On that same note though, I think the 502A package was a great purchase because those little amenities are what really make the car a joy to drive.

 

*Edit*

The TX-CA trip in my jeep averaged about 17-18mpg according to the car computer (I was stupid and forgot to record mileages between fill ups)

Edited February 25, 2010 by wstcoaster07

[lrymal]

I have to agree here too. I've had my FFH since May 09 and during the cold days my mileage drops to mid to low 30's. In summer I get high 30's to low 40's except when it blistering hot and the air just runs. A lot has to do with warm up and driving distance. Short trips in the cold winter will always be low mileage.

I agree with the agreement....

 

The manual mentions that mileage drops during cold weather. And definitely, short trips really penalizes the gas mileage. I would suggest about 3 - 5 miles minimum is what is needed to get all cranking up rather good. This is probably true for any vehicle.

 

I am so pleased with this car this winter. Compared to my Pontiac G5, which is a sweet little car in its own right and SMALLER in size, my FFH is simply a more economical car to drive, even with this nutty winter weather.

Edited February 25, 2010 by lrymal

[wease]

I have 2800 mile on my FFH and i just did a full tank/mileage test and it worked out to 33.3 MPG.

I am very happy with this figure and i'm sure it will get better as the car brakes in.

[seamusbleu]

I have 2800 mile on my FFH and i just did a full tank/mileage test and it worked out to 33.3 MPG.

I am very happy with this figure and i'm sure it will get better as the car brakes in.

I'm not quite to 1000 miles and am getting something less than 33 MPG. Most of that is (hopefully) due to winter temperatures and winter gas. Some of that is (again, hopefully) due to the car still breaking in.

 

Does anyone care to share their MPG vs mileage for, say, the first 10-20 tankfuls of gas? I'm curious to see how the mileage trends as the car breaks in.

[mxmastro]

Six months, 18K Miles, 39.9MPG overall mainly highway and in the chilly (not cold) DC Metro area.

[lolder]

I'm not quite to 1000 miles and am getting something less than 33 MPG. Most of that is (hopefully) due to winter temperatures and winter gas. Some of that is (again, hopefully) due to the car still breaking in.

 

Does anyone care to share their MPG vs mileage for, say, the first 10-20 tankfuls of gas? I'm curious to see how the mileage trends as the car breaks in.

Read ALL of this thread. I'm at 39.8 mpg. with 8800 miles in S. Florida. I don't think there's much of a break-in effect other than how you drive the car. Google "hypermiling" and read some of that. Some of it doesn't apply to hybrids. Read the owners guide. Turn off AC and heat when you don't need it. My observation with AC off is the car gets 43 mpg at 50 mph and 59 deg. F. Reduce that 0.7 mpg for every 1 mph increase. Reduce it also 0.2 mpg for every 1 deg. F. decrease in temperature. Slower speeds and warmer temperatures increase the mpg the same amounts. Temperature and driving habits are the big variables.

Edited March 4, 2010 by lolder

[seamusbleu]

Read ALL of this thread. I'm at 39.8 mpg. with 8800 miles in S. Florida. I don't think there's much of a break-in effect other than how you drive the car. Google "hypermiling" and read some of that. Some of it doesn't apply to hybrids. Read the owners guide. Turn off AC and heat when you don't need it. My observation with AC off is the car gets 43 mpg at 50 mph and 59 deg. F. Reduce that 0.7 mpg for every 1 mph increase. Reduce it also 0.2 mpg for every 1 deg. F. decrease in temperature. Slower speeds and warmer temperatures increase the mpg the same amounts. Temperature and driving habits are the big variables.

I have read it all. I've done the hypermiling techniques in order to get to 33 MPG. I never see 40 MPG trips (ok, I've seen a couple that got close), let alone average that. That's what worries me. It wouldn't surprise me that some cars get better mileage than others due to variability out of control of the driver.

[rpreuss]

I wonder how much our mileage is affected by E10, 10% Ethanol gas??

 

lolder is getting 40, and lives in Florida

 

seamusblu is in MN, and is getting like me (NJ), around 30. When I took a 1000 mile trip through New England, I averaged 40mpg mostly on the highway at 65 - 75 mph.

 

I checked this site and both MN and NJ do not require labeling the gas. Florida does. Most New England states require labeling. Obviously requiring labeling is not the same as pumping it, but who knows what they are really getting?

 

I am pretty sure everyone in NJ is pumping E10. I don't know if it is required, or what the laws say in other states, but if you are getting E10, it will certainly affect your overall mileage regardless of how you are driving.

Edited March 4, 2010 by rpreuss

[seamusbleu]

I wonder how much our mileage is affected by E10, 10% Ethanol gas??

In MN E10 is mandated year round. On top of that, in the winter I think other additives blended in at the refinery make an additional hit on MPG. I guess I hadn't thought that all the 40-MPG's I hear about are probably running straight gas. In MN, E10 has been all we've had for so long I forgot others have it different.

[bbf2530]

Hi guys. :D Just to avoid any confusion, the subject of labeling of gas pumps dispensing ethanol (A.K.A. "oxygenated fuel") has been previously covered on some of these forums in the past. Federal law requires that all gas pumps (in every State) dispensing fuel containing ethanol be labeled as such. Even if a particular state has no such regulation, the Federal law requires ethanol labeling on the pumps. I also live in NJ and we have ethanol labeling on our pumps, and while some stations still fail to label the pumps, if reported they are/can be cited and fined under the Federal statute.

 

Ironically, the discussion last time also centered around the same website rpreuss just cited (not his fault, as the website is worded in a misleading manner). In that previous discussion I posted a link to a U.S. Government website outlining the correct Federal statutes, so a few forum searches should find the thread and/or the Government website link.

To explain briefly, the link that rpreuss provided is a commercial website attempting to sell a service through some mild scare tactics concerning fuel/ethanol. In other words, the website is half-correct in that not every state has a specific statute requiring ethanol labeling. However, that half-truth is irrelevant since the Federal government requires ethanol labeling in all 50 states. Essentially, that "Fuel Testers" website tells some half truths to make their testing product look attractive.

 

I would use the loose analogy of Federal emissions (EPA) standards: Not every State has specific emissions standards that the automakers must follow. However, the Federal Government does, so the automakers must follow those Federal EPA standards for every car sold in all 50 States, no matter which State the car is sold in (the only exception being the more strict "California" standards, which several other states also use, NJ being one).

 

Hope this avoids any confusion concerning the subject.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited March 4, 2010 by bbf2530

[lolder]

Florida is an E10 state. It's temperature! A 50 degree temperature difference between FL and Minn. in the winter is 10 mpg! Wet roads are worth a 5-10 mpg hit. Headwinds, 10 mpg. Generally just being windier means you have more headwinds no matter which direction you're driving and crosswinds are worse than headwinds. Low and high beam headlights cost .5 and 1.0 mpg. Everything is cumulative. If you're driving in windy, cold , dark Minn, it's a big loss in mpg.

[rpreuss]

Florida is an E10 state. It's temperature! A 50 degree temperature difference between FL and Minn. in the winter is 10 mpg! Wet roads are worth a 5-10 mpg hit. Headwinds, 10 mpg. Generally just being windier means you have more headwinds no matter which direction you're driving and crosswinds are worse than headwinds. Low and high beam headlights cost .5 and 1.0 mpg. Everything is cumulative. If you're driving in windy, cold , dark Minn, it's a big loss in mpg.

 

Another really big (obviously) variable is change in altitude. This FFH is like riding a bike. You can see that even a "level" road is slightly up hill when you just can't maintain your current speed in EV mode on what appears to be a level road.

 

I live in NJ, at an altitude of 720 feet. My mom lives about 35 miles away in Westfield at an altitude of about 50 - 100 feet or so? (Never checked it).

 

Anyway, when I go to her house, over hill and valley, I easily get 40+ mpg even in the winter. Speeds are highway with some lights on Rt. 10, but also 70+ mph on Rt 24 & 78.

 

But, going home, on exactly the same route, I can never get better than 30+ mpg on average.

 

So, the overall change in altitude will make a big difference in your MPG. This may be obvious, but I wanted to mention it.

[lolder]

Very small decreases in power demand like going down an almost imperceptible hill allow the ICE to go to a very efficient, highly advanced spark, lean burn mode that it can't often achieve. You can see it on the instantaneous mpg gauge. It sort of pops up like a switch was thrown. When you get a little down hill grade, a tailwind, some drafting in traffic, really warm temperatures and smooth quiet roads, you can see this. The Prius achieves this more often with it's lighter weight and better aerodynamics. The "hypermilers" buy a device called a ScanGauge II and display the spark advance and drive to maintain a certain (14 degrees ?) value (here's the OCD again). I think you can almost do the same in the FFH by driving by the mpg gauge. (Don't tell the accident investigating Officer that's what you were doing!).

[seamusbleu]

Over at Insideline.com they show a FFH with best/worst/average MPG of 36.6/18.3/31.3 (for them month of February). I wouldn't think it even possible to get as poor MPG as 18.3.

[lolder]

Over at Insideline.com they show a FFH with best/worst/average MPG of 36.6/18.3/31.3 (for them month of February). I wouldn't think it even possible to get as poor MPG as 18.3.

Look at some of the other cars: Camero, 9.8, Prius, 26.7. They must have been plowing snow drifts.

[oldschool1962]

So....it's been a few months since anyone has posted in this topic and as a whole we've changed a couple seasons. For us, we changed cars too so I'm actually happy to reply to a topic without issues.

 

The car is just about 4 weeks old now and we have around 989 miles. On the second fill-up but not whole tank. I reset the Long-term MPG last fill-upbut not this one. I reset Avg both times. Forgot to get the receipt so can't compare the read-out to manual but.........Fopr average I've been hovering in the 39's since it was picked up but now I am hovering around 44 with the same trips. Long-term is right at 40 but as I said....I didn't reset that this fill-up.

 

Not going near anything relating to our "other FFH" so...........what will I say is.....other than it's nice to experience how the vehicle was actually intended to perform....... I'm still looking forward to future improvements but for now.....it's .....actually...........relaxing.

 

Did purchase vent visors for the windows and roof today. First step toward actually enjoying the car. Now we need a hitch mount luggage carrier. Found a 1" receiver for just that purpose. I'm guessing that it may affect mileage some but if we do it right.........hopefully not much. It won't be used much except for trips. When we win the lottery......Hehehe...we'll add the DVD Headrests and maybe a wood kit. Verdict is not out on the Charcoal interior with as hot as it has been around here but...weather or not......... it really needs the accents changed.

 

Later.

 

Oh Yeah.....the highest trip mileage happened today as well.........12.6 miles.......... 67.1mpg Highest prior to today was 56.3 at about the same miles.

Edited June 3, 2010 by oldschool1962