Ford announces full year profits for 2009

[Grey]

January 28, 2010 Ford announced------

 

"Full year net income of $2.7 billion, or 86 cents per share, a $17.5 billion improvement from a year ago.

Pre-tax operating profits of $454 million, a $7.3 billion improvement from a year ago"

 

Gotta love it when a plan comes together. Way to go Mulally.

[junehhan]

I think it is impressive that the guy that possibly saved Boeing is the guy that is currently saving Ford Motor Company. As a huge Ford fan, I found it so painful watching former CEO's like Jacques "the knife" Nasser and Bill "I wanna be an environmentalist" Ford Jr. literally ran Ford into the ground.

 

However, my biggest fear is that Ford might be trying to do too much with its future product lineup. We already have the Ford Flex, Ford Edge, Ford Escape, and Ford Expedition for people who want a SUV or CUV. As some of you guys may have heard, the new redesigned Exploror is going to be coming out as a redesigned CUV instead of a full SUV. My fear is that there is just no room for the Exploror. They are currently looking to hire 1200 people in Chicago to make the new Exploror, and i'm not sure if this is a good idea.

[Grey]

Ford is finally doing what they said they would do years ago - commonizing platforms - not just in North America, but world wide. Mulally has forced the issue and centeralized global planning for platforms. Hugh economies of scale, redundant suppliers, flexibility to build what customers want, etc.

 

It is much easier to meet the market needs when you only change the tophat of an existing platform. Engineers can concentrate on quality, fuel economy and features. Suppliers get larger runs and reduce material cost to Ford. Look for the next wave to be stop/start engine operation to reduce fuel consumption and further hybrid development.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Grey

[akirby]

I think it is impressive that the guy that possibly saved Boeing is the guy that is currently saving Ford Motor Company. As a huge Ford fan, I found it so painful watching former CEO's like Jacques "the knife" Nasser and Bill "I wanna be an environmentalist" Ford Jr. literally ran Ford into the ground.

 

However, my biggest fear is that Ford might be trying to do too much with its future product lineup. We already have the Ford Flex, Ford Edge, Ford Escape, and Ford Expedition for people who want a SUV or CUV. As some of you guys may have heard, the new redesigned Exploror is going to be coming out as a redesigned CUV instead of a full SUV. My fear is that there is just no room for the Exploror. They are currently looking to hire 1200 people in Chicago to make the new Exploror, and i'm not sure if this is a good idea.

 

That's just it - there is no good Ford alternative right now for Explorer owners. Edge and Escape are smaller and don't have 3rd row seats available. Flex is too urban and Expedition is too big and thirsty.

 

The explorer will be much more rugged than Flex with more ground clearance and more towing capacity. This will appeal to folks who would not consider an Edge or Flex. And it will go head to head with the Honda Pilot, etc.

 

And it will be MUCH cheaper (to mfr) than the explorer which is basically on it's own dedicated platform. That was ok when it was selling 400K/yr but not now.

[junehhan]

That's just it - there is no good Ford alternative right now for Explorer owners. Edge and Escape are smaller and don't have 3rd row seats available. Flex is too urban and Expedition is too big and thirsty.

 

The explorer will be much more rugged than Flex with more ground clearance and more towing capacity. This will appeal to folks who would not consider an Edge or Flex. And it will go head to head with the Honda Pilot, etc.

 

And it will be MUCH cheaper (to mfr) than the explorer which is basically on it's own dedicated platform. That was ok when it was selling 400K/yr but not now.

 

 

You know, I didn't think of it like that!

 

I guess it just scares the hell out of me that the new Exploror is going to be based on unibody construction. I tend to prefer ful body on frame vehicles, but I guess they are not as practical as they used to be. I really miss vehicles like the Crown Victoria, or the Buick Roadmaster.

[akirby]

You know, I didn't think of it like that!

 

I guess it just scares the hell out of me that the new Exploror is going to be based on unibody construction. I tend to prefer ful body on frame vehicles, but I guess they are not as practical as they used to be. I really miss vehicles like the Crown Victoria, or the Buick Roadmaster.

 

I take it you haven't owned any really good unibody vehicles lately?

 

Having owned 3 Honda cars back in the late 80s/early 90s, my wife switched to an Explorer in 93 followed by another Explorer, an Expedition and an Aviator. We traded the Aviator in for an Edge since we didn't need the 3rd row or towing or off road capability.

 

The difference in ride quality and handling is very noticeable, as is the improved fuel economy (16 combined, 19 hwy in the Aviator vs. 19 combined, 24 hwy in the Edge).

 

You should go test drive a Flex or Edge just for comparison. And don't forget that the Jeep Grand Cherokee has always been unibody.

[junehhan]

I take it you haven't owned any really good unibody vehicles lately?

 

Having owned 3 Honda cars back in the late 80s/early 90s, my wife switched to an Explorer in 93 followed by another Explorer, an Expedition and an Aviator. We traded the Aviator in for an Edge since we didn't need the 3rd row or towing or off road capability.

 

The difference in ride quality and handling is very noticeable, as is the improved fuel economy (16 combined, 19 hwy in the Aviator vs. 19 combined, 24 hwy in the Edge).

 

You should go test drive a Flex or Edge just for comparison. And don't forget that the Jeep Grand Cherokee has always been unibody.

 

 

I actually traded in my body-on-frame Chevy Trailblazer SS for my Fusion Hybrid. That SUV was likely putting out over 500hp from all of the modifications I did to it. That thing was incredible at WOT. Another body-on-frame vehicle i've owned in the past was a very unreliable Land Rover Discovery(Land Rover traded me into this since my LR Freelander spent 180 days of the 6 months I owned it in the shop). I have also owned a Crown Victoria and Mercury Marauder as well. I also had a short stint with a Ford SVT Lightning.

 

I know that Unibody vehicles have come a long way, but I still have that old mindset in that I don't trust unibody for heavy duty applications. I think they are fine for regular cars, but I don't quite prefer them in truck or SUV type apps. I remember when the Honda Ridgeliner came out and how I thought it was the bastardization of everything I think a pickup truck should be. Full body-on-frame vehicles may not exactly be best for performance or handling, but I have enjoyed the ruggedness as well as the "security" that I feel of knowing there is a heavy duty ladder type frame rail running the entire length of the vehicle.

 

I guess I tend to have a more traditional viewpoint, regardless of the advances that have been made.

 

I wouldn't mind owning a Ecoboosted Flex though, but the Edge just looks way too wierd for my taste. The new Explorer looks pretty neat, but thank goodness that Ford will always sell the Expedition if I ever need a heavy duty SUV at some distant point in the future.

[akirby]

I know that Unibody vehicles have come a long way, but I still have that old mindset in that I don't trust unibody for heavy duty applications. I think they are fine for regular cars

 

But who uses an explorer in "heavy duty application"? Nobody I know. The vast majority of explorers are never even taken off road or tow anything, therefore the switch to unibody makes a lot of sense for Ford given the target market and competition. If you really want to tow or go off road the Expedition is still available along with 4 door F150s. The explorer will have some off road capability with higher ground clearance and AWD and at least a 5K tow rating so it will be a "heavy duty" unibody crossover.

[acdii]

When it comes to crash safety, the Unibodies exceed BOF cars by a large factor. You just cant crumple zone a frame like you can a unibody. I had a 97 Exploder that I towed a 2 place horse trailer with, but it was dreadful on the highway even though it handled he weight fine, the wheelbase was too short for that kind of towing. Every time a semi went by, either passing or being passed, it was a battle to keep the vehicle straight because of the push pull of the semi's draft. With that in mind I can see that going to a Unibody, although it would reduce the towing capacity, I don't think will hurt the Explorer sales mainly because it really isn't meant to tow anything bigger than itself, which leaves it to pulling small trailers and popup campers, which it will be able to do whether it has a frame or not. I might be interested in the Explorer now if I ever found I need to replace my Veracruz. There aren't many 7 passenger vehicles available that aren't SUV's.

[junehhan]

When it comes to crash safety, the Unibodies exceed BOF cars by a large factor. You just cant crumple zone a frame like you can a unibody. I had a 97 Exploder that I towed a 2 place horse trailer with, but it was dreadful on the highway even though it handled he weight fine, the wheelbase was too short for that kind of towing. Every time a semi went by, either passing or being passed, it was a battle to keep the vehicle straight because of the push pull of the semi's draft. With that in mind I can see that going to a Unibody, although it would reduce the towing capacity, I don't think will hurt the Explorer sales mainly because it really isn't meant to tow anything bigger than itself, which leaves it to pulling small trailers and popup campers, which it will be able to do whether it has a frame or not. I might be interested in the Explorer now if I ever found I need to replace my Veracruz. There aren't many 7 passenger vehicles available that aren't SUV's.

 

 

When it comes to safetly, my understanding is that it depends on the rigidity of what the body on frame vehicle is plowing into. In the cases when the victim is less rigid than the BOF vehicle, the body on frame vehicle does pretty nice while it isn't so nice if it hits something like a concrete wall. For the vast majority of accident scenarios, it would seem likely that you would be hitting something that is likely less rigid in design. I am still a bit traditional though, and simply hope that body on frame designs will never go away. I have no need for a big SUV right now, but Ford better not get any funny thoughts about possibly violating the Expedition if I were to ever need one in the future.

[acdii]

The Expedition is based on the F150, so if the F150 goes frameless, everyone will start looking for a different truck. The only time a frame plays any significance in a car is if it has a long wheelbase, which today , there are very few of them. Another thing, just because it has a frame, doesn't make the car any stiffer, the body rides on rubber mounts attached to the frame. If you put a Grand Marquis on a lift, the body moves and flexes more than a unibody car does. I just recently refurbished a 1995 GM, had to replace the drivers front fender and was amazed at how much difference being on a lift can be over sitting on all four wheels. The fender moved 3/4 of an inch when I raised it before tightening the fender. Unibodies are also stiffer than a BOF, just look at a Mustang, it is all Unibody, yet has 500+ HP under the hood. Nothing surpasses a framed vehicle for weight distribution, but who wants a heavy gas sucking car now?